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ISS Meeting Minutes - April 13, 2002
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Illinois Speleological Survey Minutes
April 13, 2002, 11:00 am
Illinois State Museum Collections Center
Call to Order
Member Organizations and Directors:
Stygian Grotto - Kevin Berdak (proxy - Philip Newell) present
Mid-Mississippi Valley Grotto - Darrol Gasawski
Karst Conservancy of Illinois - Aaron Addison
Little Egypt Grotto - Gary Resch
Mark Twain Grotto - David Mahon
Near Normal Grotto - John Shirle (proxy - Don Coons) present
Meramec Valley Grotto - Tony Schmitt present
Illinois Department of Natural Resources - Steve Taylor (proxy - Mona
Colburn) present
Windy City Grotto- Jack Wood present
Introduction of Directors and Officers
Officers:
President Diane Tecic
Vice-President Aaron Addison
Treasurer none
Recording Secy Lea Claycomb
Data Management Committee
Philip Moss, chair
Don Coons
Steve Taylor
Meeting called to order 11:23
12 attendees
Reading of the minutes from the previous meeting - approved
Old Business
1) Shawnee Forest
Diane received a packet of information, a notice of intent that
the forest service is changing the forest plan. They seem to want some
input from groups like us. A sub committee was set up last meeting (Jack,
Aaron, John and Diane). Aaron made the point that the management plans are
skewed towards biological sciences. Gary Resch tried to stop by and offer
help, but was not taken up on it. The feeling seems to be that this is a
formality and most of the caves will be administratively closed if not
actually gated. It is still felt that we can offer some suggestions and
maybe even better some volunteers to the forest service. Jack Wood
volunteered to help out with this committee and has had some contact with
the forest service. In terms of how many caves Shawnee has control over it
may be a dozen that they know about, but may be many others are not yet
known. Could cavers (LEG?) offer a survey so the forest service knows what
caves they are managing. This has been done in Indiana with Hoosier Nat'l
Forest, which has more people. Gary Resch seems to think that there are
people and interest in LEG to do this, but leadership is needed. The
committee will hash out all these details. A report should be added to the
agenda from this committee at the next ISS meeting.
2) ESRI grant for GIS software
Aaron has had contact and written an application, but it has not
been submitted yet.. Progress has not been further as Aaron has been in
transit and ESRI has come out with a new version of the software. Aaron has
been evaluating the new software to see if we should get that instead.
Philip Newell said ESRI will be open to this request for the software. It
is thought, however, that maybe we need a project to show them that we need
the software for (Shawnee). The point was brought up: do we really need
this or is the software becoming common. Only two grottos reported having
access to GIS Arcview. It would also be nice to have a piece of software
licensed to the ISS if we are to be receiving data in GIS format. 3 copies
seem to be the number to ask for, but it is felt that each grotto should
have access to a copy of the software, which would make it 10 copies. Aaron
has a concern that 10 copies would be a bit much to ask from ESRI. Would
grottos be willing to contribute a 'nominal fee' ($100) to show their
interest? Don brought up the point that ArcView requires training to use
and that is not cheap (unless Aaron always helps us for free). There was
some free training to 'ecosystem partnership' members that people may be
able to access, but this may not happen again any time soon. Tony brought
up the good point that what happens once the software goes to the grottos
(who has it? who's computer is on it). It is felt that this proposal should
be sent out to the grottos and see what they think, if they want it. There
are legal concerns about licensure (will grottos make illegal copies?). It
is felt that MMG & Windy City & won't foot the $100, Stygian, MMV, Near
Normal may be interested. 6 copies may be a better estimate and we will
wait for final word from MVG (via e-mail) so Aaron can get rolling on this.
3) 2000 Annual Reports/attendance/update member list
Diane reported: contacted Darrol with MMV they are here, but are not
interested in rejoining yet.
Contacted Mark Twain Grotto, but Dave Mahon wasn't caving and MTG 'isn't
doing much' right now. Sounds like MTG is temporarily defunct, but Diane
will try and contact them again. Philip Newell moves to remove MTG. Motion
seconded. Approved. MTG is now out (they can be voted back in at any
time). Did we get annual reports for everyone that is in and have they been
distributed? They were due this meeting last year. Sinkhole Plain
Ecosystem Partnership was offered membership, but they did not seem
interested in joining. It is felt that we 'need' them and this is a failing
of the ISS in not having them We should send a rep. We should give them a
reason why they should be a member. Aaron said he will volunteer to
approach them. Diane has a folder of 2000 reports. There is no template
for grottos, but they should just report things they have been doing in the
Ill as stated in the bylaws, which are on the web. Grotto reports from 2001
are due TODAY, please get those in to and post them to ISS exchange. It
would be nice if future opportunities are included in the report to
facilitate networking. If you have upcoming events please let us know! (ISS
exchange seems to be the place to do). Do we need to come up with a report
form for grottos? Motion made for report form, seconded. approved. Diane
will make up an annual grotto report form.
4) status of database
funding sources/grants for database development
Report: Diane was trying to get a grant rechannelled (through DNR), but the
$ could not be just moved. Diane tried to apply for another grant that ran
into a SNAFU. Diane has a new list of funding sources to tap. Diane passed
out a DRAFT proposal for review by members.
There is no 'index' for the non-existent database so to speak. Don Coons
feels we need one and we should set up someone to do it. Don Coons made a
motion to put together an index in Excell/Access of the the ISS holdings and
that it be distributed to the Data Management Committee. Seconded.
Discussion: Clarification of the role of the data (request) management:
committee is to approve to disapprove data request, it is the role of (Mona)
database custodian. It is felt that the custodian 'managing' the data is an
unfair burden upon that position holder. There is a hole and a need for
someone to know what we have and where. There is an index already for all
paper maps. There is also an index/spreadsheet that Steve Taylor submitted
and there is a body of info that Philip submitted. . Motion passed.
-Break-
5) status of non -sensitive data CD with (maps, aerial photos) -
Report: The data is almost done. Aaron reprojected some data from Philip.
It is getting there and there may be some examples in the ArcView class
tomorrow. Arial photos, topo maps, some of the recharge areas, injection
points, geology (is available, but may not be useable for us) can/will be
included. Discussion: CDs will be made available and access does not have
to go through the data management committee. For access it is felt that
some money should change hands (maybe $10 a CD). Is there a problem with
the ISS distributing information that was aquired from the government?
Philip presented two CDs one the DOQs and Topo maps with a seamless mosaic.
Also submitted is files on Pautler/Annbrier work. All submissions were
given to Mona and are not sensitive data, if Aaron needs it for the CD.
6) Need more data
See above. We also need to organize the data we have. Tony submitted Larry
Cohen's box of data. Jack White submitted files L-Z is planning to submit
it as soon as we have something to do with it. Pat Kambesis has a project
going on, Don volunteered to ask her to submit her latest data.
New Business
7.) Direction of ISS - Skippedl
Are we effective?
What do we want to be doing?
How should we proceed?
8) Elections (Vice President, treasurer, data management
committee)
VP Nominations - Steve Taylor, Aaron Addison, Jack White
(declined)
Voting. New VP - Aaron Addison Congrats.
Treasurer Nominations - Tony Schmit (declined)We are not for
profit, but we are NOT tax exempt. Motion for Diane to seek a
treasurer, seconded, passed.
Data management Committee Nominations (voted by plurality) : Don
Coons, Philip Moss, Steve Taylor, Aaron Addison, Mona Colburn,
Philip Newell.
Voting. Don Coons, Steve Taylor, Aaron Addison Congrats!
9) Grotto updates (new feature)
MVG - This is Tony Schmitt's last meeting as MGV rep. Rick
Haley will be new MVG rep.
Stygian - Clean up in Ava cave is going to be repeated. some
people are on the verge of reporting some caves in the more N. area of the
state.
MMV - MMVs activity in Ill has been conservation training via
taking groups to Ill Caverns. There is a dig going on.
Near Normal - Most Ill caving is sport caving. There is
restoration going on in other states so if we have any clean-up here in Ill,
tap them as a resource.
Windy City - Not doing much in Ill that they are talking about,
more work is going on
LEG - Jeff Schropp has some monitors set up in Ava and Equality
cave measuring a variety of factors. Cave clean up next Sat at Equality
4/20/02, please come if you are interested.
DNR - No report.
St. Joseph Valley Grotto - Trip to Ill Caverns and Equality and
published a report in their speleo-journal. They may be good to contact
(they are a project oriented grotto).
Just for future reference please announce cave clean-ups a month in advance
on ISS exchange. Don't forget a contact person and roughly where the
clean-up will be (like what part of the state, not ness cave location.)
10) Ideas to better support cavers, grottos, and other members
ArcView training that Aaron is offering is a great idea and
opportunity for member grottos. Thanks! Philip Newell said that he has had
people asking him what the ISS needs (what needs to be mapped? GPS
coordinates needed for certain caves?). This does require a lot of time for
someone to identify issues/tasks. It is felt that we may not have the
manpower or purpose to do this right now, but should be addressed in the
future. Aaron Addison brought up project caving as an option to encourage
grotto participation. It is felt that this would work in Ill if the right
person put in place. Don said he would like to do a good, quality map of
Kruger Dry Run.
More activities assoc. with meetings - Sink-hole clean-ups, ArcView training
etc.
11) Data requests
5 data requests since last meeting.
There is some concern about how long requests are taking.
Jerry Lewis -withdrawn.
Jim Sherrill - List of names in caves in St. Clair Co so he can tell us what
he has and we don't and we granted it. No data received by ISS yet.
Jim Kennedy asked for a map of toothless cave. 1955 map given to him. Map
wasn't useful and there is talk about resurvey when the bats aren't there.
We can expect a new map.
David Culver - out of DC, asked for 56 cave entrance location for
biodiversity study. Request approved.
Joe Walsh - requested a map of Fogelepole, data committee asked for further
explanation and has not heard back.
New Data requests:
Don coons will request any data on Kruger Dry Run in ISS holdings. Keith W
heelin - Request via Jack Wood for us to fill out a cave database survey.
Don offered his information from HSS if we want. Diane wants to give this
survey to the data management committee to deal with and interrogate for
ideas for our database. Due date April 30th.
-Gary asked: What to do about landowners do about "I have a cave on my
property, has it been mapped?", direct to database caretaker. Get things
like name, names cave may have gone by, GPS coordinates (if possible),
submit it and we'll get back to you.
12) Open discussion on topics of interest to ISS - Suspend
agenda for 20 minutes.
Discussion about the effectiveness of the organization ensued. Darrol
Gasawski discussed the reluctance of MMG to participate with ISS because of
the perception that ISS only wants to gather data and is not willing to
release it to cavers. There was some agreement on that point although it
may be a misperception. The ISS is willing to provide data if it will
support the goals of the organization (To protect, conserve, locate, record,
explore, and study the caves and karst resources in Illinois). Even though
ISS has provided some data, it is thought that there may be a double
standard regarding who gets data. Some think that "official" researchers can
get data more easily than "regular cavers." Although there may be
misunderstandings about ISS, people's perceptions and past experiences with
ISS are important to consider and may affect our effectiveness as an
organization. We need to address perception problems when possible and make
sure people understand the purpose and goals of the ISS.
13) Other matters
14) Determine next meeting time, date, and place - 10am Nov. 2nd 2002. DAY
OF THE DEAD. Tenitively at Ill State Museum.
15) ArcView class
Aaron is willing to give the class to an organization. He has
had interest from other states in providing this class and they would pay a
fee for it. If KCI passes on this opportunity ISS is next in line to take
this class and potentially make money from it.
Diane brought up a resource online "Innonet.org" that helps non-profits
Adjourn 3:25pm
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